Talk:PC Ultimate Grind
Breaking the game is cool and everything, but it's too bad there's no guide on this site on how to beat the game without grinding/exploiting the BR system. 05:09, June 29, 2010 (UTC) Mystic Seal Grinding for Fallen The PC Ultimate grind suggests using Mystic Seal to train up to fight the Fallen. However, Mystic Seal is available after entering Undelwalt, at which point the Fallen Quest is no longer available. How is it possible to use Mystic Seal to grind for the Fallen? :It assumes that you've already gotten the formation on a previous playthrough. I would think that most people would try playing the game normally the first time, then play an optimized game from then on. Zephyr135 17:39, September 3, 2010 (UTC) Stats Limit? Hi,I was stuck in defeating the Lost Remnant (Southwestern Road). With BR 85 and almost all characters with their final weapon. I was planning to grind some stats before trying again. But it seems that my characters' stats won't grow anymore. Rush stuck in 1870 HP,174 Str (Legendary Ninja,Nightbloom Virtutis and Parrying Tataraichi),Baulson 2700 HP,178 Str (Legendary Scout,Fafnirsbane),Gaou 2063 HP,210 Str (Legendary Hunter,Obsidian Virtutis),Torgal 2633 HP,171 Str (Legendary Paladin,Halphas Dominus x2) and other characters I can't remember their stats. So I was wondering if there is a limit in every character stats? Do their class affecting their stats limit? Because my Torgal have 3273 HP when he is still a Legendary Swashbuckler.I'm using the PC version. Thank you before. 00:14, September 11, 2010 (UTC) :It might be because the enemies you're fighting are too weak for them to earn any stats off of. You should be able to get a few stats from training in the Ancient Ruins as those monsters have a higher BR than pretty much everywhere else. There is a limit and it's 255 in the 4 paramters, 9999HP and 999AP. Their class doesn't affect their stat caps at all. Zephyr135 00:24, September 11, 2010 (UTC) Well,thanks. I'm going to explore the Ancient Ruins again 04:43, September 11, 2010 (UTC). 255 Stats in one battle Doing this you should make turns go past 100 and you could cap most stats to 255. On Xbox at BR 12 I fought Violet Leafhopper making my turns go to 96 the first time. Rush gained +10 to str. Did it again making turns go to 149 and rush got +14 to str and now he was capped( Reserve leaders got +14 str too). I was gladiator class with no STR bonus either. Since pc has Mystic Seal Formation if you made a battle last as long as you wanted wouldn't it be possible to get some stats to 255 in one battle? Unless they changed stat gain in pc.--Jay222 22:47, March 1, 2011 (UTC) :I don't think it's possible since from Turn 31 onward, EXP gain is 0. Or at least Skill/Art EXP gained is 0. Zephyr 02:37, March 2, 2011 (UTC) Wisdom's Echo The Seven Grind You all know that the Wisdom's Echo quest has bugs to battle grind on but people say that it will raise your battle very quickly and some people still don't have all the preferred Units like the Seven, So dont do this quest until you recruit the seven since this quest is always available and you can battle grind there for as long as you like. I finished this quest after the part Find an Ark with no more storyline accept The Final Fight and if you keep your battle rank low you can easily gain allot of stats from this quest and get Buffed up for The True Conqueror (Rank 8)--Remnant13 08:39, May 8, 2011 (UTC) :It does raise your BR fairly quickly, but the stat gains you get far outweigh that. A well played game wouldn't even need to use this grinding spot. It just happens to work for those who require that kind of help. And if you can beat the E7 at BR25 or lower, then it's obvious that you don't need to grind. But what happens if you want to use Glenys? What will you do then? Zephyr 15:30, May 8, 2011 (UTC) :This grind does not raise your combat or mystic skill effectively because the bugs are easy to beat but it gives you a fair amount of stats.--Remnant13 00:11, May 10, 2011 (UTC) ::You're missing the point of my post. I was asking what you would do if you wanted to use Glenys, since she tends to be a favourite among some, not about skill training. It's actually OK for training arts because of the multiplier once you get to 370+ Chain. Since you also get EXP for selecting the art, it's not like other units will be left in the dust. There's also the Mystic Seal formation, which can severely gimp the party, allowing for (hopefully) more actions per turn. I had managed to get Perneth to spark Cachexia before having to deal with Jager and the Lob Omen, and I didn't even visit the place more than 2 times. Only had to leave to restock on Potions and Herbs components because I was trying to spark Flame Bottle and Frost Tincture (still about 2~3 levels away from FB). So yeah, I would know. I've used this spot many times for any run not involving unique leaders. Zephyr 00:25, May 10, 2011 (UTC) :Cachexia and strong Item arts are fairly difficult to learn and I dont even need Glenys (Because I care about looks more than stats haha..) in my union and I already finish this quest after the fallen to recruit Jager and learning Hundred flowers, even with Mystic seal formation its still one hit kill from most of my skills. I've been grinding here for allot even reaching 5000+chains but still no good enough skills I'm BR33 now heading to the Holy plains skill cant finish the quest Bloody Alice and the Fiery Gates the hard part of the Fiery Gates are the Remnant Guards not the Gates.--Remnant13 03:52, May 10, 2011 (UTC) ::And you still haven't answered my question: What should the player do if s/he wanted to use Glenys? ::IAs are very easy to train if you deploy 5 unions. You're likely to get a command for supporting ally unions, or healing commands if someone gets battered enough. They only take a while because you're limited to what you're carrying. Incidentally, it's also why I block all IA training (except for healing) until I can get the 370 Chain. Any higher than that is actually pointless as the multiplier stops there. Cachexia is easy to spark as well. It only takes a while to spark because it's a Low Mystic. I'm only around BR26, heading to the Bases, but several of my IA/CA units are almost ready to spark the Rank SS arts (checked up on them). Of course, it helps that I only had 11~12 units to train. Blackout IV is also ready to go, so it shouldn't be too hard. Zephyr 04:56, May 10, 2011 (UTC) :Well if they want to use Glenys and Jager they should do the quest and grind some where else like the ancient ruin and for the multiplier thing and that stuff I'm just starting to understand that even though I'm on my 4 Play-through or I'm just to stupid to understand.--Remnant13 06:12, May 10, 2011 (UTC) ::That's definitely a little on the slow side. Only took me about half the game to realize something was up with various mechanics. There really isn't any need to grind for stats. Skills and arts do require some work because of the EXP required for everything. Zephyr 07:01, May 10, 2011 (UTC) You cant even see your EXP its completely different from other RPG games especially the leveling system where if you get stronger the enemy does to unlike other leveling system where the enemies get outclass without getting stronger and thats the thing that I like about this game its so awesome!--Remnant13 07:56, May 10, 2011 (UTC) :Guess you've never played a SaGa game before. LasRem behaves in a similar fashion (it's by the same team), only that it's easier because the enemy scaling only affects their stats. It doesn't suddenly change the monsters to something that's much stronger. The "evolving" monsters are quite a bit stronger than the previous tier, almost in an exponential fashion. And you can't see EXP in those games either. The only way you can gain stats is to find the appropriate weapon type and/or skill to raise specific stats, like using a Bow to raise DEX. So no, this game is not unique in that regard. That's actually the reason why I clued in rather quickly; because I had just finished playing Romancing SaGa during the summer. Zephyr 13:25, May 10, 2011 (UTC) :Ive not played that play becuase I'm more on shooting type games but only RPG game that I got addicted is The Last Remnant, maybe someday I'll does games not like I have all the time for games there school you know.--Remnant13 20:24, May 10, 2011 (UTC) ::Guess what. I'm in school too. Well, it's technically summer break for me right now, but I'm keeping myself occupied with learning new stuff on my own and training in archery (I want to compete). So I don't have all the time in the world either. I just pick up on certain things really quickly. Zephyr 01:53, May 11, 2011 (UTC) :Summer break is the only time where I can do this kind of stuff and study in advanced, well summer break is almost over better get ready for some learning and good luck in your training.--Remnant13 02:44, May 11, 2011 (UTC) So what would be a good alternative to this grind trick if you did want to take Glenys and Jager? Aside from the Ancient Ruins.Koroem 00:54, July 26, 2011 (UTC) Why does the Xbox Rush-only grinding doesn't work? Can anyone explain why the xbox grinding with Rush only doesn't work on PC? The way I see it they are essentially the same: to build up a ridiculous amount of battle chain while fighting earthworm. The only difference is that it is Robelia Castle in xbox 360, and in PC it's avecliff. The difference between PC and XBox 360 is that (and I quote the wiki): "Linking additional enemies together does not increase your Battle Rank further than having fought them separately." But the goal of this grinding session is not about increasing BR (of which you should go to Ancient Ruins instead), it's about grinding skills. So I really don't see any reason why the XBox 360 method doesn't work in the PC version. :If you read how the Rush Only trick works, you can probably guess why. The developers noted that being able to only use 5 other leaders would be a bit of a hindrance, so they coded so that all reserve leaders would develop based on Rush's actions. This helps them stay "caught up" in arts development (and likely overtaking the active leaders if those leaders aren't using arts that often). So the X360 grind is really more for skill development as the stat gains from it is rather slow. Do note that there's a very clear distinction between Leaders and Soldiers for that version, and that the soldiers do not gain stats from the solo grind. :On the PC, the primary goal of the "ultimate grind" (it's actually rather inefficient when it comes to stat/skill development vs. BR gain) is really stat growth with arts/Skills as a secondary development. The linking of a fair number of those Landworms is enough to boost stat gain chances and the high Chain helps with that. The problem with both grinding methods is that the high Chain also contributes to BR gain (you wouldn't really notice it though). There are also other methods of developing their arts, so the solo grind is essentially obsolete if you know what you're doing (hint: use the Mystic Seal anywhere and everywhere). Incidentally, using CAs or MAs will speed along STR or INT growth anyways. Zephyr 07:45, December 27, 2011 (UTC) ::Zephyr thanks for the answer. I played and finished the xbox 360 version before and got full achievement so I completely understand the xbox 360 method of grinding. You are absolutely right, the landworm thing has never been a good place for stats grinding. For that we have the AR. I'd keep my BR extremely low before getting to the AR, and grind there until my stats get pretty maxed out. Normally my BR will be around 70~80 when that happens, only then I'll head to Robelia Castle to train arts. So the xbox 360 version is actually perfect for me as it allows me to concentrate on developing arts when my stats are all maxed out after AR. BR gain then becomes a irrelevant concept since I want to max it out anyway. But apparently this method doesn't work on PC because (if I understand you correctly) reserve leaders don't depend on Rush for their arts as in Xbox any more. ::So this is what I am going to do, I will keep my BR as low as possible (only engage in mandatory battles) until I get to the AR. I'll do my stats grind there until my stats are all maxed out. After that I'll continue with arts grind. As I want Glenys and Jager in my party I really do not like the PC ultimate grind at all. So probably I am not going to do this. I have heard elsewhere that playing with Mystic Seal as well as dragging the length of the battle (so you can use more arts) can help. Is it true? And does having a higher chains still help developing arts faster? :::Yep, the reserves don't depend on Rush for arts development. Strangely enough, you can somewhat influence the reserves' stat growth a little bit based on the average of what the active party does. And while the stat growth is a little faster for them (relatively, anyways), they will "cap" after a certain point. The only problem with the Mystic Seal formation is that it's not available as a guild reward until past entering Undelwalt, and you would still need to work your way up to a certain rank before that task shows up. It's mostly for for NG+ onward. :::The longer the battle goes on, the more chances you have for using arts. That's true. High Chain helping development is also true (220+ for x1.5, 370+ for x2.0). But in order to really drag out a battle, you need to make sure that you don't kill the target too quickly (but you still have to kill it within 30 Turns), which is what the Mystic Seal is for. So I'm in the Ruins for both stats and arts. Before that, I'm usually found beating up rares or dragons/spiritlords. But here's the catch for the PC version: you can't get into the Ruins until you beat The Fallen. Another thing: good luck trying to max out your stats. It will take you until BR120+ of constant grinding to get STR255/INT255 for your core team. So on the PC, you pretty much have to do arts and stats training at the same time. It's more difficult to do during the initial run since you don't have many options. Zephyr 18:42, December 28, 2011 (UTC) Grind Results ------------Kadamony's Test PC Hard Mode just before entering Undelwalt and engaging The Fallen Start--'BR24' , End--'BR31' , 3152 Landworms chain, always <10 turns. Skill Increase: From near-base skill levels to... Snowfall (Rush), Zeal's Virtue (Gaou), Heaven's Door (Caedmon), Hawkarang (Torgal), Snowblind (Roberto), Cachexia IV (Lukorra, Zolean). On average, wield and weapon skill levels increased beyond rank 16. Use growth Remnant accessories for slackers. Stat Increase: Total HP almost tripled, 8 players have over 100 Strength, 4 have over 100 Intellect. Many gained over 60 points! Speed grows much slower, most characters at 30. Typically got 4 separate stat bonuses on 70% of characters every battle, and 2 to 3 bonuses on the rest. Grind Details: Average 15min per battle, 10 hours total. Used Mystic Seal Formation to reduce normal attacks and counters to 0 damage, maximizing skill usage. 20% of the time monsters survived single powerful combat skills. With the added defense, healing was not necessary (to say nothing of Glenys' corpse). BR growth was every couple battles at first, then four or five. 30 to 31 took nearly 10 battles. If you start here at ~BR28 you're still good as far as efficiency is concerned. Characters accrued about 400,000 gold each during the grind. Stopped grind at BR31 after the last weapon art was learned as not to dwarf end game recruit stats (The Seven). Keeping Wisdom Echo open until end game as Jager and Glenys are worthless compared to the grind benefits. Note you would also sacrifice Hundred Flowers to keep this quest open. Playthrough data and hints: Timing was just before The Fallen battle, unlocking all players except Glenys and Jager. Minimized BR on entire playthrough. Characters always matched final wield style and weapon type, so minimal skill ups were not wasted. Turned off non-combat skills in general except for 4 magic players and a smattering of psionics, as combat arts is the best source of spike damage. Killing all bosses was a breeze with only a few game overs at points where characters and gear were limited. Carried over a 7 million budget from previous playthrough and components. Used player gold to upgrade expensive weapons. Managed to get dozens of Remnant and other weapon upgrades from disassembling all gear on prior playthrough before final boss (Auld weapons are great). Did not have Ancient Ruins access on prior playthrough, but completed all possible guild quests. It is recommended to stock up on magazine drops and the rarest components on your prior playthrough. The Fallen: At BR31 in PC Hard Mode, The Fallen fell in 3 turns...Torgal capped him in the face with Lugh's for over 200,000 damage before his HP was even blinking. Cachexia nullified all of his attacks, but even without it, heavy use of psionics can keep him at bay with fewer casualties. The Enlightened Seven: Ludope gave me a hard time with Galaxy, since I had only Rush's Orphic Ward. With the Vampire (magic dodge) formation, and some magic evasion shields, I pulled off a kill on Ludope with only 1 union left using stacked Talisman and Orphic Ward. The rest was a cinch. Heavy use of psionics/morale control is a must. End Game: At BR43 in PC Hard Mode, just before the final boss chamber, I revisited our critter friends with every recruit except Gleny's and Jager. This BR is after completing all possible quests (other than Wisdom's Echo and subsequent quests) and some minor farming. This time I took the grind to 1071 chains. BR increased by 1 to BR44. Surprisingly, I got almost no stat up bonuses. Each fight I got 2 to 4 increases out of all 18 characters, just HP and AP. Skill ups were normal, as those are not dependent on BR. Don't bother keeping this quest open when it's time to beat The Fallen, unless you want to train The Seven without affecting your BR. Of course, you could always fight any boss type enemy with Mystic Seal formation, just not with the 200% skill up rate from 400 chains. Conclusion The sweet spot for the PC Ultimate Grind (at least in PC Hard Mode) is BR26 to somewhere between BR32 and BR40. PC Ultimate grind is well worth the while and with proper planning and execution, you will break the game too! ------------Player Test Tested at BR54 and reached 1,944 battle chain count before being moved to BR55. Each active member, on average, gained 4 upgraded/new arts. They also gained AP/HP etc every battle. Each linked 20 landworms battle lasted over 10 turns. -------- giangole Test I missed the easiest technic during the quest in Aveclyff (lendworms farm). However i tried it in the ruins of robelia castle. Basically u need to complete the quest "Kate and Rhagoh" (is not necessary u can also go in the the passageway tier but is faster with underground tier) because it opens a new location in the ruins. useful to make the creeps in the others parts of the ruins to respawn. My method: 1)In the "sweeping household" there are 11 monsters (2 lizards and 9 landworms), with shift take all em and kill em 2) go back in the "central tier" and then in "underground tier" (in the PC Version u need to change 2 maps before the mobs respawn) 3) go back in the sweeping safehold with the shift. 4)repeat again and again and again :D This way is pretty easy and safe because monsters are pretty weak, its only really boring, so i suggested to play the game in windowed mode, in fast mode switch off the audio and do something else while doing this. BR 56 i reached the 57 (after darken forest before entering mt Vakel) chain about 850 stats increased i think about 10-15 points and 1-2 skills leveled up per character i have also 30000 gold i suggest to do something smilar to this! contact me at giangole18@hotmail.it for info :D -------- Another test Started: BR 13 (After getting 18 party members) Ended: BR 29 Chain count: 4k Formations: Vanguard (First playthrough) Battle details: Around 7 turns each, Miss all critical triggers, Maximise skill usage, used 14 party members instead of 18 (Still have to get 4 of the final 18 soon) Average stats growth for each unit: HP: 1476.0 Init AP: 10.5 AP: 104.5 STR: 60.0 INT: 45.6 SPD: 11.8 Unique attribute: 29.6 Everyone got over 200k gold For exact stat ups for each unit, visit https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0si2Rs56p7odDg2ZHZLUUlpakU/edit Lastremnantfan (talk) 07:35, February 12, 2013 (UTC) -------- Uhkam Test Start BR: 5, end: Never finished It's next to impossible to grind at this low BR. You have to be very lucky so that your union doesn't get flanked/rear assaulted. Otherwise, after first union has fallen, the whole thing crumbles away. In my opinion, it is the best to get 18 party members and most of your final 18 in order to make the grind effective and efficient. Before the grind each of the unions should at least have 2k hp in total. Or you could start with fewer landworms in one pull so it would be easier. Lastremnantfan (talk) 15:49, March 30, 2013 (UTC) Next grinding spot at high BR? As I read some of the posts and experienced it myself, from BR30+ stats gain from this spot start to drop significantly (especially for high BR units like Han/Hin, they almost don't get any gain at this spot). Is the Ancient ruins the only place left to think about? And what should we do to pull a good number of mobs at same time since they are quite distant from each others and do not respawn infinitely-- 02:36, July 26, 2012 (UTC) ::Nevermind me, now i realize that was because I reached cap stats. Last time was grinding from BR25 to 32, stopped growing at about same stats as I grind from 12 to 25 this time.-- 10:08, August 22, 2012 (UTC) Any other good grinding spot? I've complete Wisdom's Echo and The Cosmos Maiden and currently at BR 57, chapter: meeting the god emperor. As i've completed those quests, I can't do this or Bai Ze grinding again. So, are there any good grinding spot other than this? :You can always attempt to spawn Bai Ze the normal way. Using the quest was the easiest as it's a guaranteed spawn, but it doesn't stop you from using it as a punching bag. You can spot it from the entrance if your settings are turned up high enough. Other places right now would be the Second and Sixth Paths, but they can end up raising your BR a fair amount if you don't get enough ally KOs per battle... Zephyr (talk) 18:47, August 26, 2012 (UTC) Unexpected jump Hello Weird thing just happen to me i was grinding here and I get to 3k+ chain but no big stats increases was visible then i have done one more battle and they whooped up by 30 - 50 stats in everything but speed where was gains during that fight something about 10 - 15 ...... I dont understand two days of grinding and almost nothing then one fight and they jumped sky high ... Did anybody else experienced this kind of Jump. PararadoxXx ( sry i am not registered ) :Yeah, that's normal. The game's a little funny about updating their displayed stats. You can force the display update by changing their equips or selecting something to change their formation. Their internal stats are correct so you don't need to worry about that. Zephyr (talk) 12:23, October 1, 2012 (UTC) ::Thanks PararadoxXx Characters to improve. Hello, im new in the game (just finished once and didnt even do all the side quests). I just got in Nagapur and I have some quests left because they are too hard for me. Dont know if its my union or the stats too low. I wanted to know which characters should I improve with this grind trick. My unions are: - Rush, Torgal, Blocter -- Wedge formation. - Emma, Oakes, Nora -- Wedge formation. - Caedmon, Gabriel, Baulson -- Melee Stance formation. - Hematea, Pagus, McNeil -- Vanguard formation (Mystic arts) Any other help would be apreciated. I apologize for my english, im spanish and Im trying my best 13:04, August 7, 2013 (UTC)Randor. : Would wait until after the Nest of Eagles since you can train another 3 units. I would have waited until after then for the quests as well, except for the obvious "Bravery and Loyalty". Maybe ditch Emma for Violet since she'll be leaving soon. You might want to deploy a few temp soldiers for reviving purposes because Gabriel looks to be the only one right now. Should be able to revive with at least 3 units by now, and you can easily nab Neales, Deacon and/or Sutherby for that at no cost to you. If you're under BR41 and going against the Nest of Eagles, it's a strategy problem since you can take it on at BR3 on Normal without too much issue. Once you're past there, then it's possible that your stats are too low. Zephyr (talk) 14:07, August 7, 2013 (UTC) Hi, I've just tried Nest of Eagles, everything well 'till bosses came, they destroyed me. I'm on BR21 Hard Mode (Shouldnt have done that -.-) and I can revive with 3/4 of my units. Right now Im trying the grinding method, cant face more than 6-7 groups (lets not talk about 20 >.<) and changed Emma for Violet, I thought Emmy would come with the same stats Emma left. Anyway, Ill keep trying Nest of Eagles, yet im not sure if Ill be able to do all the sidequests after that since some of them just disappear after doing some story quests. Btw, you didnt tell me if my characters were the correct ones to improve, except Emma, so Ill asume they are. Thanks Zypher. : Reason why I didn't say anything about your units is because different players can be using different teams. In one of my runs, I didn't even have the full 12 deployed and heavily relied on Hex to get through the fight. On a speed save build for another player, I considered soldiers a valid deployment option because they had decent enough stats + the arts I needed (they were further developed as well). Not to mention I only had Oakes for reviving. I think playing on Hard is definitely a mistake if you don't know the game well enough. The "Emmy comes with Emma's stats" assumption kinda proves it. I would make a suggestion: you can likely replace Oakes with Darien with very little problem. : Locking yourself into completing the events in the Aqueducts is the cutoff point. You're still very safe since the only quest you should be concerned with is "Bravery and Loyalty" before Emma leaves the party. Honestly, that's really the only one that should trip up anyone because of how early it is. : If you can clear away all the lackeys before Roeas and Castanea engage you, should be fine. Caustic Blast (Lavelle starts with this) and/or Hex arts (you have options) are great for this. Then when they're in range, just jump on Castanea and try taking him out ASAP. Roeas + Overdrive isn't bad. Castanea + Overdrive can be a nightmare. Zephyr (talk) 15:02, August 7, 2013 (UTC) Stat EXP calculation After fiddling around in the game's code I figured out how the game calculates stat EXP. The equation is: Stat EXP = RoundDown(((Link # * 11) - 1) * RoundDown(Bonus,1),0) + RoundDown(commands EXP * RoundDown(Bonus,1),0) + RoundDown(actions EXP * RoundDown(Bonus,1),0) Where commands/actions EXP is the EXP gotten from performing Arts/getting hit/healed as listed in EXP Tracking. The Bonus is the product of the chain bonus (min x1, max x2) and BR bonus (min x0, max x3). --Brokenstorm (talk) 21:06, February 5, 2014 (UTC)